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13F-HR filed by MARINER INVESTMENT GROUP LLC

MARINER INVESTMENT GROUP LLC filed this 13F-HR for the quarter ended 2013-09-30, filed 2013-11-12, with 267 holding rows worth $391,184,000.

Accession
0001085146-13-001916
Filed
2013-11-12
Accepted by EDGAR
acceptance time not in the bulk data set
Ingested
Source
SEC quarterly data set

Original filing

13F report for Q3 2013

A combination report, 267 entries on the cover page, a total value of $391,184,000 stated on the cover page (in dollars after the unit check, H1), rows summing to $391,184,000 with VALUE read as thousands by filing date, 13F file number 028-11231. The quarter's positions are built on this report. The resolved quarter.

Other managers

  • reports for this filerHAVENS ADVISORS LLC028-10727
  • reports for this filerDOLPHIN FINANCIAL PARTNERS, L.L.C 028-11307

The information table after summing rows of one CUSIP and put or call (H4), with the CUSIP and issuer name as filed. Values in dollars after the unit check (method).

Issuer as filedCUSIPClassAmountValueValue read asType
SPY78462F103SHS529,150$88,902,000thousands by filing date
Intel Corp458140100COM974,365$22,333,000thousands by filing date
RAMCO-GERSHENSON PPTYS TR751452608PERP PFD-D CV352,009$20,695,000thousands by filing date
HEALTH CARE REIT INC CONV 6.5042217K601PFD299,283$17,299,000thousands by filing date
SPROTT PHYSICAL GOLD SILVER153501101COM1,110,000$16,317,000thousands by filing date
GENERAL MTRS CO37045V118*W EXP 07/10/201457,821$12,137,000thousands by filing date
CARNIVAL CORP COMMON STOCK143658300Stock332,620$10,857,000thousands by filing date
Google38259p508COM11,254$9,857,000thousands by filing date
Lockheed Martin Corporation539830109COM71,000$9,056,000thousands by filing date
TARGET CORP COM87612E106Stock117,356$7,508,000thousands by filing date
EPR PPTYS26884U208PFD C CV 5.75%347,863$7,382,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN MUN CR INCOME FD67070X101COM SH BEN INT440,028$5,588,000thousands by filing date
UNITED MICROELECTRONICS CORP SPON ADR NEW910873405ADR2,414,366$4,974,000thousands by filing date
AUTOZONE INC COM053332102Stock11,761$4,972,000thousands by filing date
REMY INTL INC759663107COM193,742$3,921,000thousands by filing date
Wells Fargo & Company949746101COM90,000$3,719,000thousands by filing date
PANERA BREAD CO69840W108CL A23,274$3,690,000thousands by filing date
NORDSTROM INC655664100COM65,394$3,675,000thousands by filing date
MINDRAY MEDICAL INTL LTD602675100SPON ADR93,445$3,634,000thousands by filing date
BHP BILLITON LIMITED SPONSORED ADS088606108ADR51,000$3,392,000thousands by filing date
GOODYEAR TIRE & RUBBER CO382550101COM500,000$3,300,000thousands by filing datecall
WHITEWAVE FOODS COMPANY966244105COMMON STOCK155,923$3,114,000thousands by filing date
VALE S A91912E105SPONSORED ADS197,700$3,086,000thousands by filing date
GRIFOLS S A398438408SP ADR REP B NVT100,047$3,029,000thousands by filing date
WYNN RESORTS LTD983134107COM150,300$2,969,000thousands by filing datecall
HERBALIFE LTDG4412G101COM SHS200,000$2,926,000thousands by filing datecall
DIAMOND OFFSHORE DRILLING IN25271C102COM45,461$2,833,000thousands by filing date
Coca-Cola Company191216100COM67,700$2,564,000thousands by filing date
Verizon Communications Inc92343V104COM53,000$2,474,000thousands by filing date
ISHARES TR46428743220 YR TR BD ETF23,000$2,447,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN MUN MKT OPPORTUNITY67062W103COM190,330$2,333,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN PREMIER MUN INCOME FD670988104COM178,210$2,299,000thousands by filing date
SRH TOTAL RETURN FUND INC101507101COM294,093$2,244,000thousands by filing date
GENERAL ELEC CO369604103COM92,000$2,198,000thousands by filing date
GENERAL MTRS CO COM37045V100Stock60,000$2,158,000thousands by filing date
COMCAST CORP NEW20030N200CL A SPL47,000$2,037,000thousands by filing date
Microsoft Corp594918104COM60,000$1,997,000thousands by filing date
GERDAU SA SPON ADR REP PFD373737105ADR240,000$1,790,000thousands by filing date
Energy Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y506SHS20,111$1,667,000thousands by filing date
Viacom Inc Cl A92553P102CL A19,800$1,659,000thousands by filing date
United Parcel Service,Inc. Class B911312106COM163,000$1,500,000thousands by filing datecall
XILINX INC983919101COM31,787$1,489,000thousands by filing date
LENNAR CORP CL B526057302Stock50,500$1,447,000thousands by filing date
Merck & Co.,Inc.58933Y105COM30,000$1,428,000thousands by filing date
INVESCO DYNAMIC CR OPPORTUNI46132R104COM110,687$1,423,000thousands by filing date
Schlumberger Limited806857108COM254,300$1,398,000thousands by filing datecall
Lockheed Martin Corporation539830109COM60,000$1,383,000thousands by filing datecall
DWS MUN INCOME TR COM23338M106COM111,552$1,379,000thousands by filing date
Morgan Stanley617446448COM50,434$1,359,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN PREM INCOME MUN FD67063W102COM102,606$1,339,000thousands by filing date
Financial Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y605SHS66,000$1,314,000thousands by filing date
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL PLC SPN ADR780259206SPONS ADR A20,000$1,314,000thousands by filing date
GENERAL DYNAMICS CORP COM369550108Stock65,000$1,294,000thousands by filing datecall
NUCOR CORP COM670346105Stock300,000$1,245,000thousands by filing datecall
FREEPORT MCMORAN INC CL B35671D857Stock808,800$1,225,000thousands by filing datecall
NATIONAL OILWELL VARCO INC637071101COM963,500$1,214,000thousands by filing datecall
HESS CORP42809H107COM15,600$1,207,000thousands by filing date
PowerShares QQQ Trust Unit Ser73935A104COM15,000$1,183,000thousands by filing date
MOSAIC CO COM61945C103Stock27,000$1,162,000thousands by filing date
PENNEY J C INC708160106COM132,000$1,162,000thousands by filing date
NATIONAL OILWELL VARCO INC637071101COM392,900$1,146,000thousands by filing dateput
Apple Inc037833100COM2,400$1,144,000thousands by filing date
Procter & Gamble Co742718109COM14,963$1,131,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN INS MUNICIPAL OPP FD670984103mf80,592$1,048,000thousands by filing date
ISHARES TR464287234MSCI EMG MKT ETF24,200$986,000thousands by filing date
MOBILE TELESYSTEMS PJSC607409109SPONSORED ADR44,314$986,000thousands by filing date
L-3 COMMUNICATIONS HLDGS INC502424104COM65,000$982,000thousands by filing datecall
WHOLE FOODS MKT INC966837106COM80,000$977,000thousands by filing datecall
BLACKROCK FLA MUN 2020 TERM09250M109COM SHS63,257$962,000thousands by filing date
NETAPP INC COM64110D104Stock22,500$959,000thousands by filing date
BLACKROCK GLOBAL OPP EQUITY TR092501105COM67,067$938,000thousands by filing date
LAUDER ESTEE COS INC CL A518439104Stock214,900$925,000thousands by filing datecall
AMERICAN CAMPUS COMMUNITIES024835100COM27,000$922,000thousands by filing date
NEWFIELD EXPL CO651290108COM33,641$921,000thousands by filing date
Schlumberger Limited806857108COM9,980$882,000thousands by filing date
Google38259p508COM65,400$876,000thousands by filing dateput
NUVEEN PERFORMANCE PLUS MUN67062P108COM63,302$855,000thousands by filing date
NUVEEN QUALITY INC MUNI FUND670977107mf66,606$840,000thousands by filing date
Apple Inc037833100COM28,500$835,000thousands by filing datecall
WHOLE FOODS MKT INC966837106COM14,136$827,000thousands by filing date
DISH NETWORK CORPORATION25470M109CL A18,000$810,000thousands by filing date
FIRST TR HIGH INCOME L/S FD33738E109COM45,797$803,000thousands by filing date
COMMONWEALTH REIT2032334086.50% PFD CUM CO38,104$798,000thousands by filing date
TARGET CORP COM87612E106Stock125,000$794,000thousands by filing dateput
TRANSOCEAN LTD REGISTERED SHSH8817H100Stock2,416,580$779,000thousands by filing date
AMERICAN EAGLE OUTFITTERS INC COM02553E106Stock55,000$769,000thousands by filing date
EOG RES INC COM26875P101Stock20,000$715,000thousands by filing datecall
CME Group Inc. Class A12572Q105COM45,000$686,000thousands by filing datecall
AT&T Inc00206R102COM19,856$672,000thousands by filing date
INVESCO MUNI OPPORTUNITY TRUST46132C107COM56,796$669,000thousands by filing date
PANERA BREAD CO69840W108CL A48,300$647,000thousands by filing dateput
NUVEEN MUN ADVANTAGE FD IN67062H106COM49,960$625,000thousands by filing date
PENN VIRGINIA CORP707882106COMMON STOCK93,460$622,000thousands by filing date
DIAMOND OFFSHORE DRILLING IN25271C102COM88,700$613,000thousands by filing dateput
LIBERTY GLOBAL PLCG5480U120SHS CL C7,800$588,000thousands by filing date
Intel Corp458140100COM928,200$585,000thousands by filing dateput
FRANKLIN RESOURCES INC COM354613101Stock76,200$560,000thousands by filing datecall
RADIAN GROUP INC COM750236101Stock40,000$557,000thousands by filing date
NORDSTROM INC655664100COM116,000$552,000thousands by filing dateput
COSAN LTDG25343107SHS A35,600$547,000thousands by filing date
Starbucks Corporation855244109COM27,000$532,000thousands by filing datecall
SPY78462F103SHS330,000$517,000thousands by filing dateput
NOBLE ENERGY INC655044105COM50,000$513,000thousands by filing datecall
INVESCO SR INCOME TR46131H107COM96,191$505,000thousands by filing date
AKAMAI TECHNOLOGIES INC COM00971T101Stock150,000$503,000thousands by filing dateput
UnitedHealth Group Inc91324P102COM50,000$500,000thousands by filing datecall
KOHLS CORP500255104COM9,615$498,000thousands by filing date
MRC GLOBAL INC55345K103COM18,200$488,000thousands by filing date
FLUOR CORP343412102COM51,000$476,000thousands by filing datecall
ST JUDE MED INC790849103COM40,000$462,000thousands by filing datecall
EXPEDITORS INTL WASH INC COM302130109Stock94,000$451,000thousands by filing datecall
EV ENERGY PARTNERS LP26926V107COM UNITS11,500$427,000thousands by filing date
CHIPOTLEMEXICANGRILLI169656105STOK15,000$409,000thousands by filing datecall
LAS VEGAS SANDS CORP COM517834107Stock54,200$391,000thousands by filing datecall
AKAMAI TECHNOLOGIES INC COM00971T101Stock150,000$384,000thousands by filing datecall
FREEPORT MCMORAN INC CL B35671D857Stock464,300$373,000thousands by filing dateput
EATON VANCE SENIOR INCOME FUND27826S103SH BEN INT48,644$342,000thousands by filing date
VERIS RESIDENTIAL INC554489104COM15,500$340,000thousands by filing date
WYNN RESORTS LTD983134107COM157,700$337,000thousands by filing dateput
EATON VANCE SENIOR FLOATING-RA27828Q105COM21,594$333,000thousands by filing date
AKAMAI TECHNOLOGIES INC COM00971T101Stock6,400$331,000thousands by filing date
QR ENERGY LP74734R108UNIT LTD PRTNS20,000$326,000thousands by filing date
Ashland044209104Common50,000$324,000thousands by filing datecall
BHP BILLITON LIMITED SPONSORED ADS088606108ADR70,000$319,000thousands by filing dateput
Google38259p508COM41,900$314,000thousands by filing datecall
Financial Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y605SHS230,500$313,000thousands by filing datecall
NUVEEN PA PREMIUM INC MUNI 267061F101COM25,389$311,000thousands by filing date
Schlumberger Limited806857108COM195,500$295,000thousands by filing dateput
ISHARES TR46428743220 YR TR BD ETF252,000$289,000thousands by filing dateput
Caterpillar Inc.149123101COM115,000$275,000thousands by filing dateput
Qualcomm Incorporated747525103COM4,000$269,000thousands by filing date
Deere & Company244199105COM64,500$268,000thousands by filing datecall
AT&T Inc00206R102COM262,500$262,000thousands by filing dateput
CAPITAL ONE FINL CORP14040H105COM27,000$260,000thousands by filing datecall
Merck & Co.,Inc.58933Y105COM609,900$254,000thousands by filing datecall
NUVEEN PA INVT QUALITY MUN F670972108COM19,733$249,000thousands by filing date
ADVANCE AUTO PARTS INC00751Y106COM3,000$248,000thousands by filing date
LAUDER ESTEE COS INC CL A518439104Stock165,800$237,000thousands by filing dateput
Caterpillar Inc.149123101COM126,000$227,000thousands by filing datecall
XILINX INC983919101COM173,800$226,000thousands by filing dateput
PRICELINE GRP INC741503403COM NEW4,000$226,000thousands by filing datecall
WIPRO LTD SPON ADR 1 SH97651M109ADR21,110$217,000thousands by filing date
HARLEY DAVIDSON INC COM412822108Stock32,200$212,000thousands by filing datecall
MATTEL INC577081102COM5,000$209,000thousands by filing date
Procter & Gamble Co742718109COM83,200$208,000thousands by filing dateput
SPDR GOLD TR78463V107GOLD SHS70,000$203,000thousands by filing datecall
KOHLS CORP500255104COM104,400$203,000thousands by filing dateput
ZYNGA INC.98986T108CL A54,690$201,000thousands by filing date
AT&T Inc00206R102COM201,300$198,000thousands by filing datecall
XILINX INC983919101COM140,900$193,000thousands by filing datecall
EATON VANCE RISK-MANAGED DIVSF27829G106COM17,428$188,000thousands by filing date
NETAPP INC COM64110D104Stock140,000$186,000thousands by filing datecall
Wells Fargo & Company949746101COM500,000$185,000thousands by filing dateput
BLACKROCK MUNIYIELD FUND09253W104COM13,041$174,000thousands by filing date
Coca-Cola Company191216100COM250,000$169,000thousands by filing dateput
MACYS INC COM55616P104Stock52,000$162,000thousands by filing datecall
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM25179M103Stock37,500$162,000thousands by filing datecall
ISHARES TR46428743220 YR TR BD ETF120,000$162,000thousands by filing datecall
FASTENAL CO COM311900104Stock50,000$160,000thousands by filing datecall
GENERAL ELEC CO369604103COM173,800$159,000thousands by filing dateput
C H ROBINSON WORLDWIDE IN COM NEW12541W209Stock60,000$156,000thousands by filing datecall
CHEESECAKE FACTORY INC163072101COM80,900$152,000thousands by filing datecall
BLACKROCK MUNIHLDGS NJ QLTY09254X101COM11,020$149,000thousands by filing date
SPDR S&P Homebuilders ETF78464A888SHS55,000$145,000thousands by filing datecall
FORD MTR CO COM345370860Stock320,000$144,000thousands by filing datecall
NUVEEN DIV ADVANTAGE MUN FD67070F100COM11,058$143,000thousands by filing date
MARATHON OIL CORP565849106COM52,800$136,000thousands by filing datecall
BUNGE LTDG16962105COM25,000$126,000thousands by filing datecall
CHESEPEAKE ENERGY CORP165167107COM110,400$122,000thousands by filing datecall
CHIPOTLEMEXICANGRILLI169656105STOK27,700$118,000thousands by filing dateput
Chubb Corporation171232101Equity20,000$117,000thousands by filing datecall
Waste Management, Inc.94106L109COM50,000$114,000thousands by filing datecall
EXXON MOBIL CORP30231G102COM20,000$113,000thousands by filing dateput
NETAPP INC COM64110D104Stock215,000$111,000thousands by filing dateput
ALCOA INC013817101COM417,900$109,000thousands by filing datecall
Verizon Communications Inc92343V104COM100,000$108,000thousands by filing dateput
KOHLS CORP500255104COM55,000$108,000thousands by filing datecall
QUICKSILVER RESOURCES INC.74837R104COMMON STOCK50,000$99,000thousands by filing date
NORFOLK SOUTHN CORP COM655844108Stock17,500$93,000thousands by filing datecall
Apple Inc037833100COM10,800$89,000thousands by filing dateput
AUTOZONE INC COM053332102Stock23,400$85,000thousands by filing dateput
DIAMOND OFFSHORE DRILLING IN25271C102COM127,500$82,000thousands by filing datecall
SIRIUS XM RADIO INC82967N108COM20,000$78,000thousands by filing date
UNITED STATES NATL GAS FUND912318201UNIT PAR $0.001110,000$73,000thousands by filing datecall
NORDSTROM INC655664100COM130,100$72,000thousands by filing datecall
CHEESECAKE FACTORY INC163072101COM96,400$69,000thousands by filing dateput
NEWFIELD EXPL CO651290108COM20,000$68,000thousands by filing datecall
ADVANCE AUTO PARTS INC00751Y106COM20,000$67,000thousands by filing datecall
SPDR GOLD TR78463V107GOLD SHS20,000$65,000thousands by filing dateput
GOODYEAR TIRE & RUBBER CO382550101COM500,000$65,000thousands by filing dateput
GENERAL ELEC CO369604103COM158,300$63,000thousands by filing datecall
BHP BILLITON LIMITED SPONSORED ADS088606108ADR60,000$63,000thousands by filing datecall
WEYERHAEUSER CO COM NEW962166104REIT35,000$63,000thousands by filing datecall
EXXON MOBIL CORP30231G102COM88,100$62,000thousands by filing datecall
ISHARES TR464287739U.S. REAL ES ETF15,000$62,000thousands by filing dateput
PANERA BREAD CO69840W108CL A51,600$62,000thousands by filing datecall
EASTMAN CHEM CO COM277432100Stock10,000$60,000thousands by filing datecall
RADIAN GROUP INC COM750236101Stock100,000$58,000thousands by filing dateput
DICKS SPORTING GOODS INC COM253393102Stock10,000$55,000thousands by filing datecall
Morgan Stanley617446448COM67,600$54,000thousands by filing dateput
WHOLE FOODS MKT INC966837106COM55,000$53,000thousands by filing dateput
Utilities Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y886SHS25,000$49,000thousands by filing dateput
ALCOA INC013817101COM320,800$48,000thousands by filing dateput
NEWMONT CORP651639106COM40,000$46,000thousands by filing dateput
TARGET CORP COM87612E106Stock71,800$46,000thousands by filing datecall
Morgan Stanley617446448COM100,000$42,000thousands by filing datecall
Intel Corp458140100COM75,000$41,000thousands by filing datecall
GENERAL MTRS CO COM37045V100Stock30,000$41,000thousands by filing datecall
ISHARES TR464287234MSCI EMG MKT ETF50,000$36,000thousands by filing dateput
WYNDHAM DESTINATIONS INC98310W108COM20,700$36,000thousands by filing dateput
COACH INC189754104COM20,000$36,000thousands by filing datecall
COTERRA ENERGY INC COM127097103Stock40,000$34,000thousands by filing dateput
TIME WARNER INC887317303COM NEW10,000$33,000thousands by filing datecall
Verizon Communications Inc92343V104COM100,000$32,000thousands by filing datecall
SELECT SECTOR SPDR TR81369Y407SBI CONS DISCR16,500$32,000thousands by filing datecall
Coca-Cola Company191216100COM115,000$30,000thousands by filing datecall
Merck & Co.,Inc.58933Y105COM34,200$29,000thousands by filing dateput
Technology Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y803SHS30,000$28,000thousands by filing datecall
SIRIUS XM RADIO INC82967N108COM170,000$27,000thousands by filing datecall
MBIA INC55262C100COMMON STOCK20,000$24,000thousands by filing dateput
WEATHERFORD INTL LTDH27013103COMMON STOCK-FO25,000$24,000thousands by filing datecall
URBAN OUTFITTERS INC917047102COM39,000$23,000thousands by filing datecall
Walmart Inc.931142103COM10,000$22,000thousands by filing dateput
Health Care Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y209SHS20,000$19,000thousands by filing datecall
NEWMONT CORP651639106COM30,000$19,000thousands by filing datecall
Honeywell Technologies438516106COM10,000$18,000thousands by filing datecall
Bank of America Corp060505104COM50,000$17,000thousands by filing datecall
USBANCORPDEL902973304COM NEW49,400$17,000thousands by filing dateput
COACH INC189754104COM10,000$17,000thousands by filing dateput
BARCLAYS BK PLC06740C188IPATH S&P500 VIX30,000$16,000thousands by filing datecall
ISHARES TR464287739U.S. REAL ES ETF30,000$15,000thousands by filing datecall
Honeywell Technologies438516106COM10,000$14,000thousands by filing dateput
Qualcomm Incorporated747525103COM11,000$14,000thousands by filing dateput
USBANCORPDEL902973304COM NEW36,000$14,000thousands by filing datecall
ISHARES TR464287234MSCI EMG MKT ETF30,000$14,000thousands by filing datecall
WYNDHAM DESTINATIONS INC98310W108COM20,700$14,000thousands by filing datecall
UNITED STATES OIL FUND LP91232N108UNITS17,500$14,000thousands by filing dateput
RESOLUTE ENERGY CORP76116A116WTS50,854$13,000thousands by filing date
MATTEL INC577081102COM10,000$12,000thousands by filing dateput
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM25179M103Stock10,000$11,000thousands by filing dateput
LAS VEGAS SANDS CORP COM517834107Stock110,500$10,000thousands by filing dateput
ANNALY CAPITAL MANAGEMENT035710409COM40,000$10,000thousands by filing datecall
FORTRESS INVT GROUP LLC CL A34958B106COM17,200$10,000thousands by filing datecall
COTERRA ENERGY INC COM127097103Stock40,000$9,000thousands by filing datecall
ABERCROMBIE & FITCH CO CL A002896207Stock10,000$9,000thousands by filing datecall
ANNALY CAPITAL MANAGEMENT035710409COM40,000$9,000thousands by filing dateput
BARCLAYS BK PLC06740C188IPATH S&P500 VIX100,000$9,000thousands by filing dateput
SELECT SECTOR SPDR TR81369Y308STATE STREET CON32,500$8,000thousands by filing datecall
MICHAEL KORS HLDGS LTDG60754101SHS10,000$8,000thousands by filing datecall
PENNEY J C INC708160106COM10,000$8,000thousands by filing dateput
PANDORA MEDIA INC698354107COM50,000$7,000thousands by filing dateput
LIFELOCK INC COM53224V100COM20,000$7,000thousands by filing datecall
BED BATH & BEYOND INC075896100COM10,000$6,000thousands by filing dateput
Progressive Corporation743315103COM30,000$5,000thousands by filing dateput
DISH NETWORK CORPORATION25470M109CL A20,000$5,000thousands by filing datecall
Financial Select Sector SPDR Fund81369Y605SHS20,000$4,000thousands by filing dateput
TRANSOCEAN LTD REGISTERED SHSH8817H100Stock32,400$4,000thousands by filing datecall
MATTEL INC577081102COM10,000$4,000thousands by filing datecall
NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORP COM666807102Stock10,000$3,000thousands by filing dateput
BEST BUY INC COM086516101Stock10,000$3,000thousands by filing dateput
OWENS CORNING WARRANT690742127COMMON74,447$3,000thousands by filing date
Eli Lilly and Company532457108COM10,000$2,000thousands by filing datecall
Netflix, Inc64110L106COM10,000$2,000thousands by filing dateput
UNDER ARMOUR INC904311107CL A10,000$2,000thousands by filing dateput
PENNEY J C INC708160106COM25,000$2,000thousands by filing datecall
Bank of America Corp060505104COM12,900$1,000thousands by filing dateput
DECKERS OUTDOOR CORP243537107COM12,500$1,000thousands by filing dateput

Amendment chain

FilingRoleFiledAcceptedIngested
13F-HR 0001085146-13-001916this filing2013-11-12acceptance time not in the bulk data set